Does anyone??????????????????????

Mr. Krauthammer has is right this time - Bush fatigue and lousy economy. Well said, Charles!!

The answer is NO! Obama hasn't figured it out yet. It changes daily. This is the direct result of his lack of experience..which has always been my concern with Obama.

Anyone who actually thinks Obama can get us out of Iraq is not of sound mind. We are there to stay ...like it or not...and Obama is starting to realize that..This is where the empty promises hit the fan...He can't deliver..because he has no idea where to start to fix all our problems.

Yes I supported Hillary...because of the two candidates she best understands our needs for "change". It isn't just a word to her..It is most unfortunate that Obama mania has put him where he is...(lost in space)with no ability to turn our country around. Maybe in a few years he can get it together...but we need immediate results...and he is not qualified to execute the changes needed.

The problem is that his supporters are unable to be objective and look at his flip flopping for what it is...He doesn't know what in the hell he is doing! His supporters are blinded by the image and can't get past it...They are ready to exculpate him from all his blunders, without hesitation...It is very sad to watch..this obsessive denial of the obvious...

John McCain acts like he is senile...and I am more convinced by the day that he gets confused very easily...We are in trouble with either one of them. McCain will escalate the "wars"...and sink us further into debt...and continue the militarist/corporate government control..We are well on the way to losing our country to a bunch of crazies.

Obama does not have the wherewithal to change our direction...as proven by his constant change of positions...The only way I would even consider voting for Obama is if he put General Wesley Clark on the ticket...at least we would have someone who understands the need for change...and would be able to get Obama headed in the right direction.

Krauthammer should get off the flag pin issue ..it is nothing compared to his other changes..I do however wonder why he caved in...and is now wearing it...We see a man who will do anything for votes. He is courting the religious right...the gun lobby...and trying to razzle dazzle Montana. Good luck there..they are not going for it...they do not like (we) liberals no matter how far to the right of center he is willing to go..His advisors must be napping...

Is that all there is? A pin? Duh, he had a pin on, and then he took it off!--Gawwwlly Sargent Carter!

...then he put it back on again! What a tricky fellow.

What we need is another idiot who can't change his mind like that idiot we've had in there for the last eight years.

CJ... you are so full of crap. You have no idea what you're talking about... You are just another McSame surrogate acting like a former Clinton fan.

Krauthammer is is only slightly more full of crap than you are (trust me, that's not a compliment). He utterly fails to mention that Obama specifically said yesterday that he never softened his stance on Iraq and will absolutely remove all combat troops inside of sixteen months.

Funny how sour kraut-hammer left that part out. It's all about spreading the current smear de-jour for conservatives... letting the truth get in the way is the last thing they want to worry about.

Why can't conservatitard writers pen something about their own candidate? Because they have nothing positive to say!...All they seem capable of is another desperate stab at using the "Karl Rove Campaigning for Dummies" book to make this election like the last two.

We ain't bitin' this time. Take your negative smears back to own party and sit this one out. The vast majority of Americans know who the best candidate is... -=OBAMA=-

P.S. - Why do you think Obama is leading in deep red states like Montana & Indiana? Because most people, even in the reddest of states, do not want four more years of King George... and they know Obama is the only candidate capable of steering our country in a new direction.

If the election were held today:
Obama - 320
McSame - 218

Plus... Nevada, Alaska, North Carolina, Florida and Missouri are all teetering on the edge of turning blue.

http://www.electoral-vote.com/

I'm not sure, but is Krauthammer against Obama?
For a refreshing change of pace, perhaps Krauthammer, or the conservative posters here, could enlighten us why we should vote FOR McCain?
Since the only apparent reason to vote FOR McCain, from the conservative view, is that he's not Obama, it merely reinforces the abject failures of conservatism. I'm sorry your conservative philosophy has become so irrelevant.

Stoneboiler...I agree the pin issue is absurd...there is so much more that should be looked at...

The flip flopping on the FISA Bill is a huge clue as to what we can expect from Obama and his empty promises...Many Democrats in Congress have sold us out and are for the retroactive immunity..which lets Bush off the hook for ordering illegal surveillance.

Pelosi is one of Obamas huge backers..and she is all for this Bill...Obama was very specific a few months ago..that he would fillibuster any Bill that gave retroactive immunity for illegal spying...and he has now caved in...Why? Could it be from pressure in the Democratic leadership? He does owe them..Our 2006 elected Congressional leadership is selling us out...WHY?

NorCalHeathen3...you can't be that naive...can you? Obama can't get our troops out of Iraq. We are there to stay...and Obama has finally figured this out...so he is trying to soften the impact of the hard facts! I guess you bought it? That was his intention...and after..or if..he is elected he can then come up with an excuse not to follow through with the withdrawel of troops...But right now...he needs you and others to believe that he can do it. It is all about getting elected!!!! It is not about getting us out of Iraq.. He hasn't even been to Iraq to see what is really going on there...WHY?

WAIT!

Has Obama stopped drinking orange juice?

Has he stepped up his bowling game?

Hey, hey, why are you laughing? Isn't this IMPORTANT?

CJ - Knock off the bs. I didn't "fall" for anything.

Now you get to explain why it's so incredibly ridiculous of me to think Obama will actually remove the combat troops from Iraq.

Oh, and quit with the fake tone of concern, Honey, I'm not that gullible. While we're at it... take your narrow little butt back over to the conservatard side of the table. That's where you belong... you get to hang out with the abortion clinic bombers from here on out.

NorCalHeathen3...don't call me honey...and don't tell me where to go...I have as much right to my opinion as you do...so if you don't like it...don't read it...

Yes... you are very gullible...if you think Obama is going to pull our troops out of Iraq. We are there to stay...like it or not!

NORCALHEATHEN...the reason is...we have 50 plus permanent military bases built or being built in Iraq. We have the largest most elaborate embassy in the world there. They have or had ( since we now have control) the worlds second largest oil supply on the planet...and we want it! That is why we bombed them into oblivian...

Do you really think anyone in our government will leave all that behind? No way... we are there to stay...Obama has just figured this out! He has been too busy signing autographs to look at it...But since that was the centerpiece of his campaign he has to keep the "hope" alive...

Krauhammer has been attacking Obama since day one.
But Charlie is a lying neocon/PNAC member who sold this war and wrote many of the lies which have us there.

He now compounds this by avoiding the simplest answer to his column.
READ WHAT OBAMA SAID.
"June 2008: Obama: I’ve Consistently Said That I Will Consult With Military Commanders On The Ground And Be Open To The Possibility Of Tactical Adjustments. Obama said, "I've also consistently said that I will consult with military commanders on the ground and that we will always be open to the possibility of tactical adjustments. The important thing is to send a clear signal to the Iraqi people and most importantly to the Iraqi leadership that the US occupation in Iraq is finite, it is gonna be coming to a foreseeable end.""

"March 2008: Obama Said The Size Of The Residual Force Will Depend On Consultation With Military Commanders And 'Will Depend On The Circumstances On The Ground." Obama said, "The precise size of the residual force will depend on consultations with our military commanders and will depend on the circumstances on the ground, including the willingness of the Iraqi government to move toward political accommodation. But let me be clear on one thing: I will end this war, and there will be far fewer Americans in Iraq conducting a much more limited set of missions that include counterterrorism and protection of our embassy and US civilians.""

"November 2007: Obama: "Even Something As Simple As Protecting Our Embassy Is Going To Dependent On What Is The Security In Baghdad...If There Is Some Sense Of Security, Then That Means One Level Of Force. If You Continue To Have Significant Sectarian Conflict, That Means Another." "I have not ascribed particular numbers to that and I won’t for precisely the reason I was just talking to Michael about. I want to talk to military folks on the ground, No. 1. No. 2, a lot of it depends on what’s happened on the political front and the diplomatic front. Even something as simple as protecting our embassy is going to be dependent on what is the security environment in Baghdad. If there is some sense of security, then that means one level of force. If you continue to have significant sectarian conflict, that means another, but this is an area where Senator Clinton and I do have a significant contrast." [New York Times, 11/1/07]"

His position is literally word for word what it was last November.

But facts have never deterred Charlie from lying, or from keeping some from jumping on that bandwagon without facts.

McCain's record on Iraq has been one wrong after another.

But we don't hear that from Charlie, because Charlie said the same things.
They were both wrong.
They STILL ARE.

If you want mere Bushco, listen to this hit piece by Charlie, but it makes you just what he and the republican party think you are.
He thinks you are stupid enough to buy the right wing smear tactics even after 8 years of Bushco.

CJ

Yes, they are mistaking the flag pin for the one with the tail on it.
Hey! it's my turn to be the dunky, Mr. Cheney.

If you need a pin to be patriotic, then anyone can be a patriot.

They should give Krauthammer $400 million,too, so he can spread the kool aid around like Rushbo.

It's going to take more than four-hundred million dollars of revision to get George on Mt. Rushmore.

John...Obama isn't saying that he will pull all the troops out...It is an occupation meeting strong resistance...not a war...Obama says he will stop the occupation...oh really? We will only have enough troops remaining to guard our embassy...uh huh...and the oil refineries and the Green Zone (little America)...and just how many troops will it take to do that? The borders have to be guarded as well...so little will change there..as far as troop levels...It is semantics...

Does that mean he will rebuild Iraq and dismantle the 50 plus bases we have built or are in the process of being built? How many troops will it take to guard those bases? We will have more than a small presence there regardless who is elected. Iraq is now under U.S. control and will remain occupied...regardless what Obama promises...just wait and see...

He is saying that he will act based on what the military leaders tell him...and conditions on the ground...What does that say exactly? It says...that he is leaving the door wide open ...He can go either way on this depending on the political climate. Sounds like a politician to me...as novice as he may be...

And ceejay
He didn't flip on FISA. Though I don't agree with him 100%, I can't find where he flipped. Please show us specifically where that happened if you are going to sell it. Show us the EXACT words that are inconsistent.

You also really need to read what John Dean said about the bill and what Obama REALLY said about FISA.
http://writ.news.findlaw.com/dean/20080702.html

You'd realize that maybe he is on to something you aren't slick enough to think of. The Republicans surely haven't figured it out yet.

What is clear is that you are still on an anti-Obama tirade due to your Hillary issues.
No one else here is fooled.

Since Hillary won't be the candidate, get over it and tell us why we should vote for McCain as it is clear you have decided to smear Obama at any opportunity and to buy into any smear anyone else comes up with.
You have been absolutely consistent on this.
NOTHING Obama, his wife, or his campaign, along with anyone he has ever encountered, has done works for you.
It is self-enforced republicanism.
You have become a parody of yourself.
Damn shame.

ceejay

READ WHAT WAS SAID.
This is about a right wing smear and you are bidding to pay the highest price for this bull.

You come here both buying and SELLING the right wing line, You quote Rush and Hannity and any number of right wing liars in your pursuit of Obama, along with agreeing with charter PNAC member Charlie K.

This type of crap is all the republicans have to run on.
And you are only too glad to help.
Go register republican. You are campaigning for them.
It is all you have done for months.

Obama: " I’ve Consistently Said That I Will Consult With Military Commanders On The Ground And Be Open To The Possibility Of Tactical Adjustments."

Uhhhhhhhhh, duhhhhhhhhhhhh................maybe he should have talked and/or visited with military commanders on the ground before he announced his policy to end the war in his primary debates.

But hey, nothing new here. I remember when Pelosi and Reid were going to end the war and impeach Bush.

Tick tock-----tick tick-------tick tock---------tick.....tick......tick.....

On that note I leave "progressive" constitutional scholars to explain how a ban on guns is a "common sense law" under the second amendment.

John ...this is not about Hillary at all...it is about Obama and the lack of objectivity of his supporters...and that would be you...

It is very clear that Obama flipped flopped on FISA. He was very clear in saying that he would fillibuster any Bill that had retroactive ammunity in it...then he changed it to he would work to get that part removed from the Bill..HUH? What Obama did... was cover his butt by leaving it open and saying he would be against immunity which is the reason for the Bill in the first place...

Bottom line he supports the Bill as it is written!!! He said he would work to get the retroactive anmmunity removed from the Bill. That is absurd and everyone knows it. That is the purpose of the Bill...He is trying to have it both ways...Feingold and Dodd are not buying it either...and it is unfortunate that you are!

John ...I am not quoting Rush or Hannity or anyone else...those are my own opinions based on observation. I don't listen to those jerks but if they have drawn the same conclusion that I have...maybe they are not so dumb after all! I'm not into right wing smear...These are my own feelings...based on what Obama has said..done.. and failed to do! Thank God I am able to think for myself...I pity those who can't!

Obama has been consisent with his Iraq policy and this so-called flip-flopping is a media construct brought to you by the McCain campaign.

Cj does have a point, though, and that is we have thoroughly entrenched ourselves in Iraq with the largest embassy in the world the size of Vatican City. It is build and we are staying and that would have been no different under Hillary.

Obama will begin to bring troops home immediately, but he is not ideologically rigid like GWB who listens to no one. Obama was against the invasion, unlike Hillary, and he has committed to withdrawing combat troops. But withdrawing has to be done responsibly and no intelligent person will stick to a plan that is not working.

I've been upset with the Iraq invasion from the beginning becuase all of this was predictable. But I also believe it is irresponsible to just withdraw the troops carelessly and with only a timeline in your head.

The goal is to withdraw the troops as quickly as possible because we cannot afford it anymore and our troops are depleted which is damaging our national security. The Iraq invasion has hurt us and Obama knows this so staying is not an option.

Krauthammer is such a dishonest man comparing Obama to McCain. They are polar opposites on this issue and always have been. Hillary was far closer to McCain than Obama was.

Why do you think the neocons were praising her so much - including Krauthammer? Because they knew she was more likely to be far more cautious, she surrounded herself with people who supported the war and the neocons were more likely to get what they wanted with her.

Not so Obama. So it's Krauthammer's job to confuse people like cj on Iraq and he's doing a pretty good job of it.

canaan...this is no longer about Hillary..Hillary never said she would pull all the troops out...because she knew it was impossible to do...Obama is just now figuring that out...This is about Obama...so I won't argue who did what or thought what..it has been rehashed enough...

Obamas promises should make everyone nervous...We are in Iraq to stay. The best Obama can do is rotate the troops and let them spend more time at home... before they are deployed back to Iraq and Afghanistan...There will be no significant troop withdrawel...we need them to protect our interests there...because we now own Iraq!

Anyone who promises to pull all the troops out of Iraq is not being honest or is terribly confused about what it takes to occupy a country. It is not going to happen..so don't hold your breath...

By the way canaan...Krauthammer has nothing to do with my opinions...Go back and read...they were mine ...long before they were his!!!!

I think you are the one who is very confused...You have no objectivity when it comes to Obama...That is not good...for you and it certainly is not the way to elect a President...As I recall that is how Bush got his support...blind acceptance...and look what that got us!

Well I must leave this happy little group for awhile...be back later...have fun!

"Pelosi and Reid were going to end the war and impeach Bush."

- Well, then you are truly delusional. One of the promises they both made was to get on with business and NOT try to impeach Bush. There are lots of members of Congress who would like to see Bush & Cheney impeached... but Pelosi ain't one of 'em.

P.S. - Yeah... tick-toc is right... It's the sound of the countdown to Democratic control of the White House and a filibuster proof majority in the Senate. Poor old conservatards... how does it feel to be an endangered species?

"You have no objectivity when it comes to Obama"

- Pot... I'd like you to meet Kettle.

That's rich coming from you Heathen, Mr. objectivity.

The difference being that I never claimed to be anything but an Obama supporter.

CJ, on the other hand, supports no one. She is simply out to slash and burn Obama... just like almost all the other conservatards on this site, she engages in the old smear style of campaigning... never speaking of what she wants or who she supports, just condemning the competition. You do the same thing... harping on Obama or Democrats in general instead of supporting your own candidate.

The difference is that this time it ain't workin'. Obama has opened up a big old can of whoop a$$ and the doddering old fool on the Republican side doesn't stand a chance.

Just wait for the Democratic convention... the final day Obama will give his acceptance speech to over 75,000 cheering voters in an open air stadium. McCain has a hard time getting his supporters to stay awake through his speeches... I suppose he could pass out coffee and Geritol before he speaks to the small number of supporters who bother to go see him.

Hey Ceejay, glad to read your post at the switchboard
this morning.

Keep standing your ground, giving us the facts, the truth and your logic.

Yesterday, being the USA birthday you wouldn't think that less than 24 hours later you'd have to remind people today that this is a Free Country.

oops.........you wouldn't have to remind people
this is a Free Country.

Can't you see there is two
Barack Hussein Obama's?
One who does things,the other who stutters out the
explanations.

If you believe that Bush's arrogance was galling, ain't
seen nothing yet. My guess he'll be another Bush 3rd term, and like Bush he doesn't listen to the will of "we the people".

"No taxes, no regulations" Reaganomics. "Compassionate Conservatism" .Reaganomics on steriods.
It's obvious that the electoral map is going to change as Goldwater republicans have figured out that this has been just a huge bait and switch. As far as the true believers are concerned they will act persecuted when they get kicked back in their caves where they belong. The "liberals" are not going to be nice about it this time as they will get true power, not just a majority in the house. The real entertainment is on marketwatch.com. It's the economy stupid.

I don't know why she felt the need to make the "free country" comment... in fact, I never tried to shut anyone up at all... She spoke her mind and I spoke mine. That's how it works.

Here's some more for y'all...

Now all the bitter old hags who can't get over the fact that Hillary lost may as well register as Republicans (if you weren't already). Hillary has disowned your point of view. She is backing Obama and campaigning with him to boot.

As the Rev. Wright, Obama's friend and pastor for 20 years put it, "Obama is a politician. He does what politicians do". They discussed over a year ago that Obama would have to distance himself from him, and that's what he did (right after declaring, "I could not disown Rev. Wright any more than I could disown the black community". Flip flop. Bye, bye, Rev. Wright). Then he flip-flopped on meeting with Iran's leaders ("without preconditions... I mean, there will be preparations"), then on NAFTA (he was clearly against it, now he says "rhetoric was overheated", just as his economic adviser assured the Canadians that Obama's rhetoric was just hot air. Spin that one away, Obamaniacs). Now we have his latest "adjustment" to withdrawing troops from Iraq (of course, he never meant he'd withdraw ALL the troops in 16 months. No, no, he's much to careful to make a promise that you couldn't nail him on. All of the critics just don't get Obama and his "nuances"). Then there's the DC gun ban, campaign finance, immunity for the telecoms... the list goes on and still the liberals cover there ears ("I don't want to hear anything bad about Obama. La,la,la...Can't hear you... All I care about is his name ain't Bush... and he has a "D" after his last name, and that's what we mean by 'change'.... la,la,la...") HAHAHAHAHA. Keep on dreamin'. The dude's just a politician, albeit he's slicker than most. I do believe Bill is jealous. Krauthammer is right on: Nobody knows how President Obama will govern and how long before he ditches all of his meaningful promises (my guess is within a few days).

I think the conservatives can actually work with this guy: just stick a pen in his hand so he can sign the bill before he changes his mind in the next few hours. And you miss that window of opportunity, just wait a few hours and it will present itself again...

Lucky for him, McCain ain't no great shakes and he can hardly charge Obama with being a flip-flopper without the Obama campaign holding up a mirror. PFFFT. Line these 2 clowns up on a beach and John Kerry could windsurf all day from the breeze resulting from all the twists, turns and flip-flopping that McCain and Obama engage in daily. (Kerry has to be looking at these 2 and thinking, "And they pinned the 'flip-flopper' label on me 4 years ago... Compared to these 2, voting for something before I voted against is steadier than the rock of Gibraltar. Sheesh.")

My Position on FISA by Barack Hussein Obama
Huffington Post 4 Jul

Today, Barack posted a message to supporters on my.barckobama.com about the FISA legislation.
I want to takethis opportunity to speak directly to those of you who oppose my decision to support the Fisa compromise.

This was not an easy call for me. I know that the FISA bill that passed the House is far from perfect. I wouldn't have drafted the legislation like this, and it does not resolve all of the concerns that we have about Pres. Bush's abuse of executive power. It grants retroactive immunity to telecommications companies that may have violated the law by cooperating with the Bush administraition's program of warrantless wiretappiing. This poetentially weakens the deterrent efft of the law and removes an important tool for the American people to demand accountablity for past abuses. That's why I support striking Title II from the bill, and willwork with Chris Dodd, and Jeff Bingaman in an effort to remove the provision in the Senate.

Democracy cannot exist without strong difference. And going forward, some of you may decide that my FISA position is a deal breaker. That's ok. But I think it is worth pointing out that our agreement on the vast majority of issues that matter outweighs the difference we may have. AFter all the choice in this election could not be clearer. I want to take this country in a new direction. So I appreciate the feedback through my.barackobama.com and I look forward to continuing the conversation in the months and years to come....

Yesss, Obama we noticed back in Feb. you wanted to take us in a new direction, the problem is we're not going in your direction!

Oh, Oh, there he goes to the left, Oh, Oh, NO, he going right, look now he went center. I'm telling ya he's going for the world record on flip floping!

.......I look forward to lying to you in the next months, and 8 years, now drink up your kool aid, and donate some more money....Yes we can.

You REALLY think Hilldog is gonna go "all in" for Obama? That means she'd have to wait for 8 YEARS to try again... and then she'll be 69....talk about "old hags"... Hillary will do "just enough" to try and repair the breach between her and the moveon.org kook base... meanwhile she'll be praying for a miracle and hoping to run against a President McCain or his sucessor in 4 years. If anything real damaging emerges about Obama's past in the next few months, don't pin the blame too quickly on the wascally wepublicans... look for the knife in the back... it will have Hillary's fingernail polish on it.

You're real astute here!
Anyone who cares about women's rights and issues should be required to read up on Baracks suport of Ralia Odinga!

I am still working for Hillary, and will see her through August in Denver!
Many people are disappointed in Obama's gaffes and his flip floping on home loan favoring, FISA,
Nafta, Guns, on meeting with Iran (that insignifican enemy), campaign financing, and on gay marriage (Cal right to gay marriage). His payroll shows he pays women less than men, and the granddaddy of em all Iraq War, the centerpiece of his primary campaign.

Yes, Hillary does her job very well, and reminds me everyday of who I am!

Did Obama promise to pull all the troops out?
When?
“I’ve always said that the pace of withdrawal would be dictated by the safety and security of our troops and the need to maintain stability,” he said. “That assessment has not changed. And when I go to Iraq and have a chance to talk to some of the commanders on the ground, I’m sure I’ll have more information and will continue to refine my policies.”

Gee, that sounds like good thinking to me.

That's this week.
Let's use the way-back machine.

November 2007: Obama Said U.S. Has To Make Sure "We Are Not Just Willy-Nilly Removing Troops" And That It May "Take A Little Bit Longer" In Some Areas Where There Is Less Stability. 

Obama said, "If we see a serious effort by the Iraqi leadership to arrive at an agreement and an accommodation and you've seen continued reductions of violence, then you need one level of troop protection for the embassy...If things have gone to hell in a hand basket then you need another ... It's not my job to specify troop levels. My job is to tell our commanders on the ground, ‘Here's your mission. Protect our embassy, protect our diplomats and our humanitarian workers in the area and make sure al Qaeda in Iraq, or other terrorist organizations inside of Iraq are not re-establishing bases there."

This what Hillary said in a speech in Des Moines, Iowa, July 10, 2007.

"to end our military engagement in Iraq's civil war and immediately start bringing our troops home as quickly and carefully as possible."
"It requires enormous care and precision, and I hope we will start that process before I'm president. We should redeploy our troops steadily and consistently, not in fits and starts."

Neither sound like withdrawing all troops. And both agree on carefully and strategically.
Anywhere I looked, I found the adjective "combat" used by Obama.
That is in full agreement with Hillary's un-involving us from Iraq's "civil war", which is what we are still involved in now.

Their positions on troops in Iraq were not very far apart, and you'd be nitpicking a-la mk over differences then or now.

Nothing has changed. The right just wants you to think it has.

It is all they have to sell, so they will say it 'three times", as in the nonsense poem "Hunting of the Snark" by Lewis Carroll,
"The Bellman, the ship's leader, led his men across the ocean, guided by a map that was just a blank piece of paper. He rallied and reassured his crew simply by repeating himself.

"I have said it thrice: What I tell you three times is true,"

Remember Bush's "You gotta catapult the propaganda"?

McCain=Bush3.
Guaranteed four more years of this disastrous thinking.

You are helping make what are very small molehills into mountains, which is the whole idea of Karl Rove-think.

Your eyes are not on the real prize, you are still on a vendetta.
Karl LOVES ya!

"Obama specifically said yesterday that he never softened his stance on Iraq and will absolutely remove all combat troops inside of sixteen months."

Ha ha ha ha....oh you were serious?

Obama, just like any other ambitious politician, will say anything to anyone to get himself elected. You want to hear that he is going to pull the troops out of Iraq in 16 months? Ok, fine, he'll say that knowing full well it ain't gonna happen. You want to have universal health care? Sure thing. He's got a plan. Somewhere (pats pockets and looks furtively around). He will never disown his minister except for when the going gets too sticky and then he quits the church. Loves his grandmother, except she isn't the grandmother he knew and throws her under the bus as a typical racist white person. Whenever there is a mistake, it has to be someone else who did it. His hands are as clean as Pontius Pilates.

The really sad part is that you people want to actually believe what he says. What fools.

"I am still working for Hillary, and will see her through August in Denver!"

- Yeah right! Don't pull our collective leg like that! We all know you're pulling a shift at the Shasta County Republican Headquarters right now. Must be awful lonely over there.

Lol... still workin' for Hillary! Okee Dokey, lady.

5 Jul Huffington Post
No Retreat, if you want to win, stop the war!

Wowwwww, Wowwwww:

Blog by Tom Hayden writing today at Huffington Post, oh yes he drink the kool aid in Feb. too.
Shaky, shaky ground I would say:

Quote:
Call him slippery or nuanced, Barack Obama's core position on Iraq has always been more
ambigouis than audacious. Now it is cathcing up with him as his latest remarks are questioned by the republicans, the mainstream media, and the anitwar movement. He could put his candidacy at
risk if his audacity continues to shrivel.

You remember old Tom, ex of Jane Fonda, here is what he said:

Quote: I first endorsed Obama because of tne nature of the movement supporting him, NOT HIS PARTICULAR STANDS ON ISSUES.
Just shows you how stoopid the reasons are when
someone votes! It's been a problem since day one. After all, Rev. Wright said it right"
he is just another politican and will say anything. The way I see it, since Tom is a writer for Huff Po, it doesn't matter, he'll back up Obama, and guzzle
the Kool-aid.

Obama was booed at a 4th July parade in Washington state yesterday, in Southern California, antiwar protestors had a Big Poster of Obama Face. Surprise, 4th of July and they're not pro Obama!

elchico
Anyone TRULY concerned about women' rights, rather than attacking Obama, would be far better served examining McCain's abysmal record on women's issues.

McCain's personal behavior involving women should also give you cause to realize that it is not in your best interest to promote McCain by badmouthing Obama.

Karl loves you too, elchico.

Obama said, "After all, the choice in this election could not be clearer. I want to take this country in a new direction."

I think his compass is broke 'cause he shifts "direction" so much he ends up spinning in circles... Oh, well... Kerry DOES need a stiff breeze to windsurf by... Looking forward to this weasel breaking liberal hearts left and right over the next 4 years.... elchico, that will be the sweetest revenge of all, being able to say, "I toldja so"... Remember how upset the libs were when Clinton finally caved in to the Republican Congress and signed welfare reform after vetoing it twice? Expect many of these delicious moments in the next 4 years...I think this clown will actually sign more "conservative Republican" bills than McCain ever would have... Hahahaha...

Jan 2008, Obama at debate in NV.
Obama: I have opposed this war consistenetly. I have put forward a plan that will get our troops out by the end of 2009.
My FIRST JOB as president of US is going to be to
call in the Joint Cheifs of Staff and say, "you've got a new mission", and that is to
responsibliy, carefully, but deliberately start to phase out our involvement there and to omake
sure that we are putting the onus on the Iraq
Government to come together and do what they need to do to arrive at peace.

Russert: In Sept. we were in New Hampshire together, and I asked the three of you if you would pledge to have all troops out of Iraq by the end of your frist term. All three of you said, you will not take that pleadge. I'm hearing something much different tonight.

Obama: No, no, no. There's nothing different, Tim...I think this is important because it was reported as if we were suggesting that we would continue thewar until 2013. Your question was, could I guarantee all troops would be out of Iraq.
I have been very specific in saying that we will not have permanent bases there. I will end the war as we understand it in combat mission.
But that we are going to have to protect our embassy. We're going to have to protect our civilians. We're engaged in humantarian activity
there. We are going to have to have some presence that allows us strike if Al Qaida is creating bases inside of Iraq.

At this time it is very hard to see what direction Obama wants to go...it seems that he did con the lefties just to win the primaries and now wants to con those on the right to win the election...like Bill Clinton said;"this is one big con job"....I think Obama will win because the media is selling the con job.

Quote:

All the issues you thought were important. I'm telling you they are not. So how can you figure out what type of President I would be? You can't because even I don't know what I'm doing. but let me be clear here. You thought you had a voice with me, you do not. I have decided to back hand you right now so you can't later claim I changed positions because the only thing I don't flip flop on is throwing people under the bus. So I must throw you under the bus before you continue your pathetic efforst of throwing me under the bus. Welcom to Barackmacy.

I'm a woman and I could give a flying fig on either person's record on women's rights or their personal behaviour involving women. Unless either of them is a serial rapist or batterer....so what.

The President doesn't have much affect on women's rights issues since they are more legal and law (Courts and Congress). I'm more concerned about what types of Supreme Court judges the next president will nominate. We barely saved the 2nd amendment by the skin of our chinny chin chins this time.

I'm more worried on which one of these bozo's is about to drive our economy further into the tank or get us involved in more conflicts by either being a naive idiot (Obama) or tough on war (McCain)

g'dam John, I learned it from you over the years!
Where's the oneness we shared John, come on Man,
this is nothing more than an
inconvient marriage.

G'dam if Arnold and Marie
can, yes we can!

CJ,
why do you or anyone think it is impossible to remove all American troops fron Iraq in 16 months?
And more importantly, why should we not remove these troops?
More than 400,000 troops were withdrawn from vietnam between Feb 1972 and Jan. 1973, in less than one year.
As as result of the vietnam withdrawal, nothing but good came out of it.
The north relaesed all our POWs, vietnam became a united country and is now one of our freindly trading allies. Best of all, American troops were no longer being sacrificed for political reasons and American was able begin its healing process.
Why is this not possible in Iraq?
Whose interests are we really protecting in Iraq?

I for one have confidence in what Obama says. American troops will be withdrawn from Iraq within 16 months after his taking the oath of office as President.

Thats the best thing about he lefties, they are easily fooled and Obama obviously knows it. He and the media know that the lefties are so blind with Bush hate that they would vote Hitler into office if that was their choice.......gotta love em. VOTE DEMOCRAT IT IS EASIER THAN WORKING!!

As I understand the FISA bill, nobody is immune from prosecution if the order given by the President to wiretap americans is found to be against the law. Bushes order to wiretap americans has not been proved legal at this time. Therefore the companies doing the wiretaps, ATT, Verizon, etc. can be tried in the future.
On the surface I donot agree with Obama's yes vote on this issue but maybe there is more to come.

DPW
The President has much to say, as he nominates judges. It is likely two high court judges will come up in the next Presidential term.
The COURTS are where women's issues will be decided.
McCain is on record concerning very conservative, hard right leaning justices, like Roberts and Alito.

If you want more a decidedly right leaning court, with the subsequent effect on women's rights and issues, then McCain is your guy, if not, then Obama is a better choice.

"Thats the best thing about he lefties, they are easily fooled..."

- That's pretty dang hilarious! It's actually the Conserva-chumps who are the ones trained to voluntarily stick their heads in the standard issue bucket of sand that gets shipped to every registered Republican.

It's great that Obama plays the game according to tried and tested rules. Play to the base in the primaries and go to the center for the general. That means he has good judgment.

Reagan fell for the bait and got into Lebanon. He had the sense to put the car in reverse gear and extricate us. I always buy cars with a reverse gear.

"If you want more a decidedly right leaning court, with the subsequent effect on women's rights and issues, then McCain is your guy, if not, then Obama is a better choice."

I'm quite aware that the President "nominates" judges. Women's issues are low, almost last, on my list of priorities and yes, I do want a hard right leaning court. Actually, what I really want is a court that adheres to the Constitution and doesn't make up rights, penumbras and other vagaries out of thin air. A court that follows the Constitution and doesn't take a popularity poll of European and other foreign countries when deciding United States law. Roberts and Alito are ideal judges.

McCain sucks. But he sucks just slightly less than Obama. Frankly I don't think we couldn't have chosen two more unqualified losers to run for President.

Hi elchico.. been so darn busy I haven't had time to come in here...still trying to catch up..I see that we are still the favorite target of the Obama groupies...and that doesn't bother me in the least. We will soon know who was right and who was wrong! It won't take that long for the reality to set in...In fact it is becoming more obvious by the day that we called it right! I'll gladly own it! Hope all is well with you...

I don't envy the man elected.

I don't think it's going to be an easy 4 years for the American people no matter who's elected.

The judge selection is probably going to sway my vote. The more conservative the better.

The supreme court is not authorised to write law, that is unacceptable to a free people.

John..."Karl LOVES ya!" no he loves you groupies you have made his job easier. They wanted Obama badly...because they think they have a real chance of beating him. He is proving them right ...with all his flipping and flopping..they are loving it.

This campaign hasn't even started and Obama is in trouble. If he can't beat McCain he should hang it up..and go back to Chicago and try to clean up the mess he left behind...Obama can give a good speech...but he is short on action...Of course what else would we expect with zero experience? All show and no go!

caltest...first of all...we did not go into Viet Nam to steal their oil. That is the only reason we are in Iraq.

The 50 plus permanent military bases...and the huge elaborate embassy...the fast food chains, clothing stores, gyms, spa, swimming pools, department stores, restraunts, movie theaters, inside the Green Zone would be left to the Iraqis...Why would we want that..when they have lived in bombed out rubble with no water and electricity and sewage in their streets... for almost seven years? We wouldn't want to spoil them would we?

The poor Iraqis are captives in their own country...and that should make all Americans very proud! No..we should not be there...period!
Common sense must prevail here...at some point..The ugly truth is...the occupation of Iraq will not change...nor will the the troops be leaving Iraq other than for a few weeks of R&R...We will maintain an occupation there forever...That is...until someone gets trigger happy and blows Iraq off the map!

Obama is not being genuine...plain and simple. He is doing everything he can think of..to get the job...even if it means stretching the truth...beyond the limits. We are in trouble with both our candidates..

elchico

the "quote" is something some other hillary-clinger-on-to posted at hillary-supporters-are-still-whining.com.

It has the weight of warm helium.

It is also the same source for your "protesters" which was some small group of from hillary-supporters-are-still-whining.com. booing Obama signs.

Actually, so you know I looked, the 'source' for elchico news reports on protests and boos?
hillaryclintonforum.net
You can bet you'll get the real objective news from really objective people there.

But I haven't a single problem with anyone booing him or protesting at his speeches at all. I hope anti-war protesters show up wherever he does. I thought we should be out years ago. But Hilary didn't have any real differences in her plan.
You, as they say at the cigar shop, are blowing smoke.
On women's issues.
McCain endorses insurance coverage for Viagra but not contraceptives or cancer screening for women and would appoint judges that would overturn Roe v. Wade.
Vote for him. That'll serve Obama right.

caltest
I think Obama should just say no, I think the whole Senate should say no, and can't imagine what hallucinogen was passed out in the House the day they voted on this.
I'm for stopping this dead in its tracks as I think FISA was already a far too lenient overide of the Fourth Amendment.
The Fourth is at least as important as the Second, isn't it?
It's basis was enumerated in the Declaration of Independence as one of the intolerable things we were rebelling against, illegal search.

But, as I pointed out, according to John Dean no immunity exists from CRIMINAL prosecution, only civil lawsuits.
Am I real happy with Obama on this? Heck no, I'd rather see him stand up with Russ Feingold and Dennis Kucinich, and fight any immunity at all, but I won't change my vote to McBush over it as the picture is far bigger.

Then again, I never expected this candidate to be everything I wanted. They never are. For any of us.
He is, as they all are, what McCain is, what's left after the idiocy of our primary circuses. The media has prevented us from allowing the BEST candidates to remain.

Though I'd personally prefer such civil accountability be left open, I can also see where that might not be a concern of the President.
I am far more concerned that legal restrictions protecting the rights of American citizens be strengthened.

Pragmatically, were Obama to vote against this, ostensibly over CIVIL liability, he would be portrayed as hopelessly weak and playing politics on security, which would be far more difficult to counter than this fairly minor blip. What matters is whether he follows through with criminal investigations and prosecutions after being elected.
I think he is between a rock and a hard place.

Actually we did go to Vietnam for oil, rubber, and tin, ceejay.
OIl is fairly abundant in Vietnam and was being exported even back then.
In 1964 Johnson ordered the bombing of oil refineries in Hanoi.

The Michelin rubber plantation was one of the largest natural rubber sources in the world at the time, and tin was and is a major export.

Ten years ago, the price of a barrel of oil was just $11. Heading into this holiday weekend, the price of a barrel of oil rested at $144 — a thirteen-fold increase.
One month after 9/11, the New York Times wrote of possible “nightmare” scenarios that would deliver bin Laden’s goal. Neela Banerjee warned that among the “misguided decisions” that would put oil supplies at risk would be “that the United States attacks Iraq.” The Times included this quote in its story:

“If bin Laden takes over and becomes king of Saudi Arabia, he’d turn off the tap,” said Roger Diwan, a managing director of the Petroleum Finance Company, a consulting firm in Washington. “He said at one point that he wants oil to be $144 a barrel” — about six times what it sells for now."

Bushco has granted another Osama wish. The nightmare, which Mccain would only make worse, has come true.

Increasingly many are disappointed in Obama due to his flip flopping:
"I don't think there has been another instance where, in meaningful numbers, his supporters have opposed him like this, said Glenn Greenwald, a salon.com writer who opposes Mr. Obama's new position. "For him to sudenly turn around and endorse this proposal is rally a betrayal of what so many of his supporters believed he believed in."

Jane Hamsher, a liberal blogger who also opposes immunity for the phone companies, said she had been flooded with messages from Obama supporters frustrated with his new stance. The opposition to Obama's postion among his supporters is very widespread, said Ms. Hamsher, founder of the web site firedoglake.com. His promise to fillbuster earlier in the year, and the decision to switcvh on that is seen as a real character problem. I know people who are really very big Obama supporters are very disillusioned."

Robert Arellano, expressed his anger on the Obama site: I have watched your campaign with genuine enthusaism, he wrote, and I have given you money.
For the first time in my life, I have sensed the presence of a presidential candidate who might actually bring some meaningufl change to the corrupt cesspool of national politics. But your about face on the FISA bill genuinely angers and alarms me.

John you hear those alarm bells going off?

ron paul: who gave us the moral authority, legal and international authority to bomb, nuke, or starve people into submission? as for obama, clinton, or mccain im utterly speechless if not terrified. and let the comments begin!

Geeze ...Heathen I have ever been called an "old hag" before...for supporting Hillary... I realize how frustrating it can be for someone like yourself who is unable to accept an opposing opinion... especially from a woman..

When will we women ever realize that this is a mans world..and we are only here for their pleasure? Silly me...I actually believe that I have a voice...and a right to my opinion...how could I possibly...get it so wrong???

It's okay to elect a man at 76...but never a woman of Hillarys (67?) age in the next election...Somewhat of a double standard? It's okay if we women have to look at your wrinkles...but God forbid a woman with crows feet...enter into public service..or out in public for that matter...I know... maybe we could enact a law...no hags or wrinkles allowed!

We now elect our leaders on their looks..sure that makes a whole lot of sense!!! I think that is one reason Obama is where he is...The Obama thong sales are flourishing...but you won't find any with McCains name on them flying out the boutique doors...Maybe there are some bloomers or long Johns with McCain stamped on them..on sale at WalMart? Thats just a guess..in case anyone is interested...